The "Sneaky Dutch" 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 e6 3.e3 f5

[Rudel]

Just a question. You've twice mentioned how Black commonly plays ...Qe7 to stop Ba3, but I was under the impression that Qc1 was a common way for White to reintroduce that threat. Isn't that the idea that shows up in a few of the games we've been looking at here?

What do you think of that plan?

[Rookpawn]

(02-08-2010 02:22 PM)Rudel Wrote:  Just a question. You've twice mentioned how Black commonly plays ...Qe7 to stop Ba3, but I was under the impression that Qc1 was a common way for White to reintroduce that threat. Isn't that the idea that shows up in a few of the games we've been looking at here?

What do you think of that plan?

It is a standard plan. But it takes 'time'. And after 9.Qc1 b6 10.Ba3 Bb7 11.Bxd6 Qxd6 Black is fully developed. The modern treatment of exchanging dark squared bishops is 7.Bf4 where black may just preserve his Bishop by Be7. But 7... Bxf4 and gxf4 is said to equalize for black due to whites compromised pawn structure.

one sample line:
1.d4 f5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 e6 4.c4 c6 5.Nf3 d5 6.O-O Bd6 7.Bf4 Bxf4 8.gxf4 O-O.

I am not an expert on this line. But I don't see either side overrunning the other.

But of course if we are talking about a CK move order then Bf4 will not be available. The most common setup for White in that case may be b3, Bb2, Ne5, Nd2 and Rc1 to exert pressure on blacks Queenside.

(Most of source reference is from Dutch Stonewall by Aagaard, Starting out the Dutch, and Chessbase)

Best chess, Rookpawn

[Rudel]

Thanks for this. I wonder if there is anything on "Winning with the Stonewall Dutch" [by Sverre Johnsen] on these lines.

[abcott]

1.d4 f5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 e6 4.c4 c6 5.Nf3 d5 6.O-O Bd6 7.Bf4 Bxf4 8.gxf4 O-O

this is covered in the Sverre stonewall book.
Raupp - Bern corres. worls cup 2002-4

[Rookpawn]

IDEA: Do not play e3 until after Nf6 has been played. How long can Black hold out before he has to commit to f5?

1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3 avoiding e3 for now to see what black is going to do.

Who breaks first Black with Dutch 'f5" or white with 'e3' our Colle lines?

[Rookpawn]

(02-08-2010 04:41 PM)Rudel Wrote:  Thanks for this. I wonder if there is anything on "Winning with the Stonewall Dutch" [by Sverre Johnsen] on these lines.

I here its a good book. Theres a lot of discussion about it on the chess pub site. (Argument over a couple lines.) But, in general very good reviews. I'm still trying to digest Aagaards book, The Dutch Stonewall. The introduction alone is worth the price of the book, covering 56 pages.

Another book I'm very interested in is Pallisers's "Dangerous Weapons:the Dutch: Dazzle Your Opponents!". I've been very impressed with Palliser's coverage of the Colle.

On item of note in all Dutch opening books that I have seen. A majority of the coverage revolves around g3 and Bg2 by White. In general the 'e3' lines are very dismissive and coverage is light. (Remind you of another opening? Many lines afford White a 'slight' advantage (+/=). But what more could you ask for?

Any way I digress. I don't know what either of the two books above have on the e3 lines but I'd assume the coverage is light. It's looks like we'll have to find some budding young author to invigorate the e3 lines with Nf3 and e3 being played.

Best Chess, Rookpawn

[Rudel]

(02-09-2010 02:12 PM)Rookpawn Wrote:  IDEA: Do not play e3 until after Nf6 has been played. How long can Black hold out before he has to commit to f5?

1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3 avoiding e3 for now to see what black is going to do.

Who breaks first Black with Dutch 'f5" or white with 'e3' our Colle lines?

Definitely worth a look, though I'm not sure this particular line of the dutch [the super-delayed one] is worth agonizing over too long. The thing I like about some of the suggestions on this thread is that they seem applicable to the merely "delayed" dutch [1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 f5]

Hmm... 1.d4 e6 2.b3 anyone?